{"id":16481,"date":"2021-05-31T19:52:21","date_gmt":"2021-06-01T00:52:21","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/online.berklee.edu\/takenote\/?p=16481"},"modified":"2026-01-28T09:05:18","modified_gmt":"2026-01-28T14:05:18","slug":"sly-and-robbie-drummer-sly-dunbar-on-revolutionizing-reggae-drums","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/online.berklee.edu\/takenote\/sly-and-robbie-drummer-sly-dunbar-on-revolutionizing-reggae-drums\/","title":{"rendered":"Sly and Robbie Drummer Sly Dunbar on Revolutionizing Reggae Drums"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"how-sly-dunbar-brought-the-rockers-beat-from-jamaica--with-robbie-shakespeare-and-peter-tosh-to-bob-dylan-the-stones-and-beyond\" style=\"text-transform:none;\">How Sly Dunbar Brought the Rockers Beat from Jamaica with Robbie Shakespeare and Peter Tosh to Bob Dylan, the Stones, and Beyond<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Libsyn Player\" style=\"border: none\" src=\"\/\/html5-player.libsyn.com\/embed\/episode\/id\/19304717\/height\/90\/theme\/custom\/thumbnail\/yes\/direction\/forward\/render-playlist\/no\/custom-color\/87A93A\/\" height=\"90\" width=\"100%\" scrolling=\"no\"  allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n\n\n\n<p>If you\u2019ve heard any reggae music in your entire life then you\u2019ve heard Sly Dunbar\u2019s drumming, or at the very least, his influence. As one half of Sly and Robbie\u2014a duo dubbed the Riddim Twins\u2014Sly says he\u2019s probably played on a million songs. Sly and Robbie got their start as the rhythm section for Peter Tosh in 1976, and after touring with him for a number of years started Taxi, where they would produce other artists and\/or act as their rhythm section. Collaborators included Bob Marley, Jimmy Cliff, Black Uhuru, the Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Madonna, Grace Jones, Sin\u00e9ad O\u2019Connor, Serge Gainsbourg, No Doubt, Britney Spears, and probably a million more.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The first thing I heard, where I realized that I wanted to be a musician, is a band in Jamaica called the Skatalites. Lloyd Knibb is the drummer.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>Pat Healy: And what was it that grabbed you about it?<\/b><b><br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Just the way he plays and the sound of his drums, and the attitude that he played with and the groove. It made me want to play drums, yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>I think I heard a story about you starting out with a set of food cans. Is that right?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>Yeah, I started out \u2026 I was going to school, and I was playing on the desk in school, and then I started playing on cans. Then I told my mom I didn\u2019t want to go back to school at the age of 13.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>And was she cool with that?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>Yeah, she was cool with that, and then I start playing; I had a big, big tape recorder and then I took off the cover and my friend and I\u2014Lloyd Parks, who was a singer\u2014and then he used to sing for Studio One, and he would come around, and I would play \u201ctick, tick, ka.\u201d It was a sound just like rock steady on the tape, when it was recorded it sounds just like a drum. Nobody knows it\u2019s not a real drum. I start playing that stuff until I got to a real drum. I started working out on it, asking questions, and start playing because I was listening, and I know what was the hi-hat and I know the tom-toms, and I know everything, but didn\u2019t really start playing on a drum kit, yet.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>So in your house growing up, was there music? I know you had two sisters, right?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>I had two sisters, yeah. I had music around me because my younger sister used to go and buy all these records like Otis Redding or Booker T. &amp; the MGs, Sly and the Family Stone, some Motown albums and all these things, so I grew up listening to a lot of Motown stuff, a lot of Stax stuff, and all of this music around.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>And did you start by playing that sort of thing or did you start pretty much playing in the Studio One sound?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>I started playing &#8230; I listened to both of them because on the radio, you had a lot of Studio One. We used to go to a lot of parties when we were young, so the Studio One songs all were played. I know a friend of mine used to make amplifiers, right, and he would go up to Coxsone at Studio One to buy the pre-released recordings, which would come out every Thursday, and he\u2019d bring it back. While he was building them, we were playing records and listening, so we\u2019re listening to all these Studio One records like \u201cReal Rock\u201d and everything, and on the flip side, we listen to all these songs that lot of people don\u2019t know, these songs that are like 50 years old.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>Yeah, what are some of those songs? I\u2019m sure they\u2019re findable now on the internet, right?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>One of the songs I used to listen to was a song called \u201cReal Rock,\u201d which was Sound Dimension, and there was a song by the Heptones, I think one of the first recordings they did. I don\u2019t remember the name of it, and there was a couple other songs. I don\u2019t remember the name of them, really, but we used to play them, but then \u201cReal Rock,\u201d definitely was one of the major songs.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Sound Dimension - Real Rock\" width=\"500\" height=\"375\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/ebMv8dnRfMY?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><b>Did you ever have any lessons or did you just figure it out by watching other people?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>I didn\u2019t get any lessons. I watched people playing, and I listened to the radio, but when I was playing in line with the second band, which was RHT Invincible, I had to call in the keyboard player. We would play these shows and have a group of people dance, and do the limbos and all these things. I would go back and play for the dance group because I was so young. I was like 14 years old, and I would play for the flow shows, and then I would come back and play for the dance people.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>And then when did the Yardbrooms come about?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>The Yardbrooms were before, just before I went into RHT Invincible. The Yardbrooms is the band that I did my first gig. My friend and I called Barry York, he lives in Canada now, and I did my first gig at a club called Teens and Twenty. A lot of people don\u2019t even know that exists. It doesn\u2019t exist today.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>Teens and Twenty?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span><\/span>Y<span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">eah.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>Does that mean teens and 20-year-olds were welcome there?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>I don\u2019t know. I don\u2019t know what it means, but we played it, and the first time I ever played and got a round of applause was \u201cRed Red Wine,\u201d a version of \u201cRed Red Wine,\u201d and that was a very popular song in Jamaica.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>Not the Neil Diamond version, but the first cover of it, right? The Tony Tribe version?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>Neil Diamond one was the popular one in Jamaica, and then someone covered it, and I think it was big in England, I think, the reggae version, but in Jamaica, it was the Neil Diamond one that was popular because people in Jamaica love soul records, and that kind of music, so it was very popular.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>You mention the name of the club, and what was the name of the club where you and Robbie first met?<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><br><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>At a club&#8230; Myself and Robbie first met downtown by Randy\u2019s Record Store. It operated somewhere where all musicians meet and independent producer would go there with the records, where the country people would come into town to buy records for the jukebox and whatever, and we would have a record under our arm because we are producing some records, and then we go inside Randy\u2019s store. Someone put it on the turntable for us, and they listen to it, and if they like, they might say, \u201cgive me six of that copy.\u201d Everybody used to meet outside. We were standing out there and talking for a while, and Robbie was talking, and then I told him, \u201cI\u2019m going by Channel One.\u201d He says, \u201cOkay, I\u2019ll give you a look at Channel One.\u201d I went to Channel One, and then while I was playing at a different club, and then he was playing at a club with We The People. We stand outside, and I ask him about a couple of songs that I heard when he was playing with the Aggrovators, and that was with Bunny Lee. I asked if he was playing bass, and he said yes, and then Touter [Bernard Harvey] told him to come up and check out this drummer named Sly. Because I know Touter, the keyboard player who plays in Inner Circle now, very good. He told Bunny Lee and we went down to Channel One. Then the first song we played was a song called \u201cToo Good to Be Forgotten\u201d by John Holt, so we did that.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Too Good to Be Forgotten\" width=\"500\" height=\"375\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/2NbASE7QuFc?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Then, I think the first song that Robbie played at Channel One, he played piano on a tune called \u201cMPLA,\u201d and he was playing guitar on a couple tracks and then Ranchie [Bertram McLean], the guitar player, would start playing bass, and then Ranchie played a couple of the songs well on bass, and then he went back to guitar. Robbie took up the bass, and then I went to tour. I was playing with Dennis Brown in London. Then Robbie and Peter [Tosh] went to New York to discuss some deal with Rolling Stone Records, so Robbie told Peter about me, and then Robbie asked if I want to join with the Peter Tosh Band. I say, \u201cno problem\u201d because I wasn\u2019t even playing in a steady band. People just call me to play and things like that. Then I say yes, and then that\u2019s when the whole \u201crockers\u201d thing started because we had to work out how are we going to form with Peter and everything like that. The first album I did with Peter was <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Equal Rights<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, but Peter wanted this \u201cone drop\u201d only. I said, no problem because my drum style had started to take over Jamaica. Everybody wanted it, and Peter wanted the one drop, but when I went onstage, we had to kind of change the pattern because sometimes the one drop, if you don\u2019t have a good engineer, you don\u2019t get the power of it. That\u2019s a change from playing my style, if you get some energy onstage, so he didn\u2019t say anything, and then we were free to just record what we want to play any sound for Peter.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>The one drop was prevalent around that time, and then basically you and Robbie came up with the rockers beat, right?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>Yeah, we kind of&#8230; Basically, it was kind of there and all, but we make it. It wasn\u2019t playing like how we were playing it, right? Because I think it\u2019s straightforward. It was introduced to reggae band by a drummer called Phil Colander from Studio One, but nobody knew he was playing because at that time, the drums on the record weren\u2019t loud enough so you could hear. I heard it, and I started playing it. I start playing the rockers thing, and listening, \u201cka, ka, ka, ka, ka, ka,\u201d and quicken that pattern because there was a fly similar thing going on, which was introduced to reggae by Lloyd Knibb, and then I played it in a song called \u201cDouble Barrel,\u201d which was a million-selling record. I played that song with them before I was 15 years old. I don\u2019t know if you know that record. Do you know that record?<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Dave &amp; Ansell Collins - Double Barrel\" width=\"500\" height=\"375\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/H_7Kx2FlFQY?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><b>No, I don&#8217;t know that one, but I was making a note to look it up.<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>Yeah, it was Trojan\u2019s first No. 1. I think they were celebrating 50 years of it right now. I played [the rockers beat] in that song, and then I played in another song called \u201cHere I Am, Baby\u201d by Al Brown, and then Bunny Lee took it over and made it really really popular in Jamaica with a drummer called Fanta, and then that\u2019s what was going on. I figure well, we have to change it, because when a sound gets too popular, then you know it\u2019s going to die soon. Every song sounds the same and then I started playing that rockers thing. I played patterns from it, so this is where I recreate the whole thing, because the drummers at that time, when I was playing pattern, they were playing random things inside of reggae.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Al Brown - Here I Am Baby - Reggae 45 - Al Green Cover\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/Djybftx4sa8?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So I realized it could work. I was listening to R&amp;B, and playing a standard pattern, and when it comes to the bridge, sometimes they would change or something like that. I start introducing that to reggae. And the chorus, we would start playing other things in the chorus, and then go back to the verse, playing a regular pattern, so I started doing that in reggae.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>When you started playing with Robbie, when did you realize that you had a connection unlike anybody else you\u2019d had a connection with before?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>Yeah, because we were doing a lot of sessions Jamaica, and other musicians played in and out, like when I was doing all the sessions with Joe Gibbs, it was myself and Lloyd Parks, who I started out with as a youth, but I just leave school, and he was playing guitar. I was doing a lot of sessions with Joe Gibbs and Lloyd Parks.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>Okay, but I guess what was it that made you and Robbie really \u201cclick\u201d as far as playing together so well?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>I think what made me and Robbie click, when we start playing with Peter Tosh, we were sharing rooms together, so we were talking about just making reggae. We were listening to Earth, Wind &amp; Fire, and all these groups, Stevie Wonder. I would think I was taking reggae to where we think it could go, and we talk about trying things and listen to Brother John and all these groups and other people that\u2019s playing it. And we think, \u201chow can we get reggae on that platform, with that energy?\u201d I was thinking how are we going to do it, and then when we went on the tour with the Rolling Stones in &#8217;78, this is when we discovered our fears, and we had to change and try to get some energy in reggae because the one drop was a bit light, playing indoors in a big arena, a big stadium. When we saw the other rock groups playing like Santana and some other groups that were playing at the show, we realized that we were very light. We need to get some superstars. When we come back to Jamaica, now, we started experimenting with the open snare thing with the Black Uhuru, and the snare came alive.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>That\u2019s an interesting point about realizing that it\u2019s not affecting the audience the same way that you want to, but then I think about a song like \u201cStepping Razor.\u201d That seems like it\u2019s got enough energy to pulse through the arena.<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>Well, alright, \u201cStepping Razor\u201d was good, but in those days, if that was recorded at Channel One, you probably had to drum a bit harder in it. When I was playing, most people they never take the drum really seriously, the engineer never take the drummer very serious.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Stepping Razor\" width=\"500\" height=\"375\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/5WZY1cEecbI?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The drummer was always in the background, but \u201cStepping Razor,\u201d it was a very good song because I was playing one drop, and I was playing it on the tom-tom. When it came to \u201cStepping Razor,\u201d I was playing it, I kind of changed it a little bit, like \u201ctak, tsch, tsch, tsch, tsch,\u201d if you listen. And then the roll that I made in \u201cStepping Razor\u201d: \u201cka tsch ka tsh ka tsch ka tsh.\u201d Robbie came to me and said, \u201cPlay a roll like that for me.\u201d I said, \u201cOkay, no problem.\u201d When we went to play, I tell him, \u201ctell me where you want to play it,\u201d and I played it and half the time I listened to that, I said, \u201cwow, it\u2019s kind of cute.\u201d People would ask me whether they came back on the same beat but I was saying it\u2019s a thing where you ease or pause a little bit and then go back to the beat. \u201cStepping Razor\u201d is really cool because how I started is I listened to a Motown record that they were playing the intro, and then the drummer would come in when the singer start. They\u2019ll play \u201cta ka ta ta,\u201d kind of a Temptations kind of thing.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>I like how you mention throwing in a pause there, and that just feels like such a perfect description of what you and Robbie have brought to music, just throwing in a pause at the right place can change everything.<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>Robbie is someone who plays in perfect time on the bass, so I could do anything and go out and come back in and catch it back. He\u2019s not going to move it. He\u2019s going to hold it for me to come back in, and I did the same for him. I would also hold steady, and he could go and do anything and come back, and he\u2019s coming back because I\u2019m holding the beat for him. If he listens to me, then he knows he\u2019s gonna be alright. He could ease, put in an extra note and come right back on it. Same thing for me: I could make the roll and pause a little and catch it back on the next downbeat because I know he\u2019s there. He\u2019s not gonna come with me. Sometimes, it\u2019s hard because a lot of bass players, they start doing things, and then they start following you, and then they start moving. I love to do this: \u201chold it steady for me because I\u2019m coming back.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Walk &amp; Don t Look Back - Peter Tosh &amp; Mick Jagger\" width=\"500\" height=\"375\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/3o4Fgh0KW_4?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><b>That\u2019s a good way of putting it. I was listening to the Peter Tosh version of [the Temptations song] \u201cDon&#8217;t Look Back\u201d that you did, and you listen to the full recording, everything seems so together, but then if you isolate the bass, there are all these little pauses and little rests that you don\u2019t even notice if you\u2019re listening to everything altogether. When you were making these decisions, was Peter Tosh weighing in on these things?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>He don\u2019t say a lot to use you, Peter Tosh, no. After we did the <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Equal Rights<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> album \u2026 When we were recording, he didn\u2019t say a word or tell us what to play. He didn\u2019t say anything: He just come play his guitar in the song. If we were playing a groove, and he would hear Robbie playing something, and I was following, he would probably start singing ideas down. He didn\u2019t tell us what to do or what to play. Maybe if you listen to all these Peter Tosh records, you can hear a different kind of groove and different kind of sound and different kind of element that he put into his record. \u2026 I was listening to some Peter Tosh recordings during the whole virus issue going on, and I said, \u201cwow, I didn\u2019t know I did things like that,\u201d and I listen to them. The <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Bush Doctor <\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">album and all these albums, <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Mystic Man<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> album, <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Wanted Dread &amp; Alive<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, and I said, \u201cwow, he didn\u2019t really tell us what to play, and I said listen, it\u2019s groove. Peter Tosh groove and reggae is kind of different from what artists, like different from Bob [Marley], that we play for him. We didn\u2019t want him to sound like Bob either, because we wanted him to have a different sound.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>I remember there was an interview with Joe Higgs where he\u2019s talking about how he wanted Peter, Bob, and Bunny to be stars in their own right, and just to have such an individual thing that they brought that when they \u2026<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>Well, they did. They were stars in their own right.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>Yeah, when you think about what you were talking about and developing a sound and playing with somebody who does or doesn\u2019t weigh in on your contributions to the music, what type of situation do you enjoy working in better?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>It\u2019s all the same situation on the record, and then who the artist is, and it will come cool. The artist needs to work. Most of the time because everybody wanted to sound like I was playing on the drum by the pattern. They would leave it up to me and Robbie to set the groove for them. They wouldn\u2019t say anything much. I would ask them sometimes what they want me to do, and they say, \u201cdo anything.\u201d Even when we were doing the Bob Dylan recording, I think in \u201984 &#8230;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>Oh, <i>Infidels<\/i>?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>Yeah, I mean, nobody tell us what to play. Bob was so cool. He just start playing the guitar, the songs, and we feel or find the tempo and everything, what they was playing and lock into the groove like I was playing. In this record, so that session was so cool. It was one of the coolest sessions that we ever worked on.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Bob Dylan - Sweetheart Like You\" width=\"500\" height=\"375\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/PpRKstHl7Y0?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><b>What was the first thing you and Robbie produced?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>The first thing we produced&#8230; I don\u2019t remember exactly. We produced a couple songs, which was like trial songs: They didn\u2019t really work out that good. I think the first album that came out, I think a double album called &#8230; I don\u2019t remember. I don\u2019t remember what we called the album. Something we record sometime. I can\u2019t recall the album, but it came out, and it was <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">okay<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, and then I think everything start happening when we came up on the Peter Tosh tour. I think we did something, a Michael Rose record or something like that, yeah. We start getting some free time at Channel One Studio. We did a couple of things. It didn\u2019t really work out, but when we came off of tour, that tour from the Rolling Stones, I think in \u201978, then we started &#8230; Channel One had a 16-track recording. They knew exactly what they wanted and the sound that they wanted.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Then we started to get into it more when we did an album for Black Uhuru, and then it would have a kick drum in the face and the snares, the open snares, and we were really going for the energy of the music, and so everything changed, and we started playing with a different attitude. Something like \u201cHeart Made of Stone\u201d by the Viceroys and others. And all of these things start happening because we had found the sound that we were looking for all the time.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"The Viceroys - Heart Made Of Stone\" width=\"500\" height=\"375\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/uvQvqKRS9EY?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><b>I think the story goes that you and Robbie basically took the money that you earned from playing with Peter and started Taxi. Is that right?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>Yeah, Taxi was there, but we came back with the tour money. When we were first playing with Peter, we were so small, so we saved our money, so when we came back to Jamaica we were looking at the future, because as musicians, you did a recording, and sooner or later, it\u2019s going to change and a new musician, a young musician will come into the picture, and people want to use other players, so we say \u201cwe want to own ourself and own our music, but we won\u2019t stop doing sessions.\u201d We play more sessions, or we\u2019re going to record more sessions. We record for ourselves and started to create the sound that we control ourselves, which records we\u2019re going to put out with our sound on it, because sometimes you might record a song for a producer, and he gets someone else to come and re-record because he didn\u2019t like how we play. We wanted to have full control of ourselves as musicians, what we going to put out. This is when we started, probably when we came back to Jamaica and then we take the money and start. We record a lot to put our sound in the marketplace, to create a sound for ourselves, instead of waiting on a producer to put out what you play. I think that\u2019s what we went after, and I think we probably kind of get it right.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>That must have been quite a culture shock to go from playing the gigs you were playing to opening for the Rolling Stones.<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>Yeah, it was really a shock because the first gig we played, I think we played at John F. Kennedy Stadium, I think in Philadelphia. It was 110,000 people. Me, I mean, Mick had also come out and introduced Peter to the people because a lot of people didn\u2019t know who Peter was, so we had a little problem there sometimes. When we\u2019re going on first, and these places are packed, jam packed, and that\u2019s when I realized the energy we are playing was not going out there because you\u2019d have to have a good engineer. In that way, those things in a big stadium, they can\u2019t just go and touch the board, because these things are preset for the top groups. So we start learning a lot from there and learn how we\u2019re going to play and talking music, like when we go onstage. Although you might record the music live, but when you go onstage, you have to probably switch it a bit to make it really exciting for the audience. Something you could play, like, how it was recorded, but you have to add to something to give it the live feel.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>I was very young in the 1970s, and so I wasn\u2019t really aware of reggae until I got older, probably like in middle school or something. But were you aware at that time, in the \u201970s, of how much of a global phenomenon reggae was becoming and how wildly popular it was and how all these other groups like the Stones and Paul McCartney\u2019s Wings were just integrating reggae into their sound? What was your thought about that from the inside?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>Well, the Stones were into reggae before we even started playing with them. They came to Jamaica, and they recorded an album. I don\u2019t remember what was the name of the album [<\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Black and Blue<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">], and they did a version of [Eric Donaldson\u2019s song that won the 1971 Jamaican Festival Song Competition] \u201cCherry Oh Baby,\u201d so they were into it from a good while. This is why they were glad to work with Peter and to sign Peter to their label. Paul McCartney and all these people, to me it was good for them to really get involved, to help the music to get to where it is today.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Cherry Oh Baby (Remastered)\" width=\"500\" height=\"375\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/DcnSa5erYu8?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><b>Yeah. It\u2019s such an interesting time in music, though, where it just&#8230; What felt like to everybody else, a brand new music, had been in existence on the island for so long and was the general feel just like, \u201cthis is great; these people are spreading the word,\u201d or was it more, \u201chey, they\u2019re taking our music!\u201d?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>A lot of people said \u201cthey\u2019re taking our music,\u201d but I never think of that because even Johnny Nash came, and they did a record called \u201cHold Me Tight,\u201d and that was a big record. I felt good because that\u2019s what made Paul Simon came and did \u201cMother Child Reunion,\u201d and Blondie did \u201cThe Tide is High.\u201d To us we know it\u2019s reggae, and so we felt good to know somebody is liking what we\u2019re doing and coming in and doing covers, using our beat, and everything.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>So you get back from the tour, and you start Taxi, and after learning so much on that tour, what were some of the first lessons you applied when starting Taxi?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>First thing we did when we came back from tour, I think we started recording. We recorded \u201c<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/iI1_rXbXoas\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Baltimore<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">,\u201d we recorded Jimmy Riley\u2019s \u201c<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/6VsFfMSjols\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Love and Devotion<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">,\u201d and we did Junior Delgado\u2019s \u201c<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/yPrKbrBWY84\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Merry Go Round<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u201d and \u201c<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/xYAmDJZNkB8\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Fort Augustus<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">,\u201d We did a Tamlins song; we did a version of this song, \u201ctoom, toom, toom, toom, toom, toom, toom\u201d: I think it was a Motown song. I don\u2019t remember the name of it. <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[Editor\u2019s Note: \u201c<\/span><\/i><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/6Wi37zX2WgY\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Smiling Faces Sometimes<\/span><\/i><\/a><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">,\u201d originally by the Temptations].<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> We were just cutting songs. We were at Channel One for one week, stuck inside there. We were cutting.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>When did people start calling you the Riddim Twins?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>I think the Riddim Twins name come from a guy at Island Records called Trevor. There was a poster of me and Robbie and on the top of it, it said \u201cRiddim Twins.\u201d I think that\u2019s where the name come from.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>Was it a name you embraced right from the start?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>Yeah, we never had a problem with it, when they say Riddim Twins, and it come back to me, and from there, it just build up.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>It\u2019s interesting listening to music now in 2021, and you can see how many streams something has on Spotify, and do you even know what track that you contributed to has the most streams?<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>No. No, no.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><b>It\u2019s OMI\u2019s \u201cCheerleader,\u201d and that has one <i>billion<\/i> streams!<br><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>Yeah, I did \u201cCheerleader.\u201d That\u2019s the remix version [that has so many streams though]. I did the original version. I played drums on it, and I had a had a writing credit, but yeah, \u201cCheerleader\u201d must be the one.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"OMI - Cheerleader (Felix Jaehn Video Edit)\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/i1Jp-V4jalI?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><b>Yeah, so you got a writing credit on that. There are a lot of songs you got a writing credit on, which is <i>hard<\/i> for a drummer to get, I\u2019d imagine. Did you negotiate that from the get go?<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><br><b>Sly Dunbar:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> <\/span>[Laughing] No, no. I don\u2019t negotiate anything because they sometimes&#8230; Sometimes, in a song, and sometimes the drum patterns is really a part of a song because whenever you think that what they\u2019re playing couldn\u2019t work, and I change everything, so I kinda recreate the whole groove for the song. On the original version, there\u2019s no bass in it. There\u2019s just drum, but there\u2019s no synth drum. There\u2019s just an 808, so they said, \u201cno, we\u2019re not going to put any bass in it because it sounded good the way it is.\u201d And I said, \u201cokay, no problem at all.\u201d I finally work on it and they say, \u201cthere\u2019s no bass in it!\u201d And sometimes, they would give me credit because they figure I\u2019m playing on the record. My name is on the record. It kind of helped the record to get a boost. Sometimes people listen and say, \u201cOh, Sly\u2019s playing on it, so let\u2019s play it, and kind of get the jump start, there, so sometimes, they want to give you some percent. Sometimes, we add to the whole groove on the record because it also depends on the drum pattern I\u2019m playing. That will probably help the record to get the boost because a lot of drums that\u2019s played ordinary, but I would go there and try to add a different sound or something.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>If you\u2019ve heard any reggae music in your life, you\u2019ve heard Sly Dunbar\u2019s drumming\u2014or at the very least, his influence. In this 2021 interview, the late Sly Dunbar said he had probably played on a million songs, on his own and as one half of Sly and Robbie.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":13,"featured_media":16486,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[9577,5],"tags":[8370,6297,213,8347,8379,8380,8378,8348,8372,8373,8374,7415,8377,8349,6817,8344,8351,7826,8376,8345,8350,8343,1301,8346,6550,8375,7449,8371],"class_list":["post-16481","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-drums-articles","category-podcast","tag-black-uhuru","tag-blondie","tag-bob-marley","tag-bob-marley-and-the-wailers","tag-chaka-demus-pliers","tag-chaka-demus-and-pliers","tag-cheerleader","tag-dancehall","tag-eric-donaldson","tag-jimmy-riley","tag-junior-delgado","tag-mick-jagger","tag-omi","tag-one-drop","tag-paul-simon","tag-peter-tosh","tag-red-hills-road","tag-reggae","tag-riddim-twins","tag-robbie-shakespeare","tag-rockers","tag-sly-and-robbie","tag-sly-and-the-family-stone","tag-sly-dunbar","tag-studio-one","tag-tamlins","tag-the-temptations","tag-viceroys"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v25.8 (Yoast SEO v25.8) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Sly and Robbie Drummer Sly Dunbar on Revolutionizing Reggae Drums - Berklee Online Take Note<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Sly Dunbar has likely drummed on a million songs. 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