Sean Slade on Radiohead’s ‘Creep,’ Fort Apache, and Trusting Your Instincts in the Studio

If you’re at a party and your friend introduces you to somebody who’s decidedly not a music fanatic, how do they introduce you?

Sean Slade: If someone wants to introduce me at a party, normally—and sometimes I call this “the magic wand,”—they’d say Radiohead. Because it turns out that a lot of people know about Radiohead, even if they’re not rabid music fans. Somehow Radiohead has permeated the culture to a certain extent, where people who aren’t devoted to music still know about Radiohead. They might not be able to pinpoint a song, but I also find that a lot of people know the song “Creep,” which I produced with Paul Kolderie, and a year ago that entered the pantheon. It has 1.5 billion streams on Spotify now. [Update: Radiohead’s “Creep” currently has 2.8 billion streams].

I get asked quite a bit about the noise that introduces the chorus or signals the course of the song “Creep.” Most of the time, the question is from some musician who says, “oh, you must have used an AC30 Vox amplifier and a Goldtop Les Paul.” And no, it was nothing fancy at all. The reason people love that sound is because it’s so damn loud, and we mixed it. The mixes that we did were not automated, so we had to do it live in the studio. We would do a mix, and the band would say, “make it louder.” And so we did another mix where it was louder, and then we kept going to the point where it was comically loud, and that was the one that everybody liked. When it comes to unconventional sounds, I’ve done all manner of psychedelic madness in recordings. But I’d have to say that the much-vaunted noise in front of the chorus of “Creep” is probably the coolest one. I bring that up because when that song became a hit, I went out to Los Angeles and was meeting with people in the music industry there. I was asked many times by professional engineers, “Why did you leave that ugly sound in?”

Was that Jonny Greenwood just testing his guitar?

Sean Slade: No, no, no. There’s all kinds of “Jonny was trying to ruin the song,” and all kinds of wonderful myths that have arisen. No, it was a very deliberate part. He thought the song was boring and he wanted to spice it up. And plus it’s just really exciting. Jonny’s a musical genius, so he always comes up with something that’s really cool.

Do you have any superstitions or rituals in your work?

Sean Slade: Not superstitions, but if you are recording, if your goal is to record loud guitar sounds, you should definitely turn on the amps and let them warm up for at least two or three hours. Because otherwise, (especially if they’re two amplifiers, which are the kind I prefer), they’re not going to get the beautiful tube-style overtones, what people call warmth. They’re not going to get that sound unless they’ve been sitting there cooking. Some producers that do that style of music, leave them on for a whole day. That works.

What kind of inspirational or funny posters do you have in your workspace?

Sean Slade: I’m not really into that kind of full aphorism thing, but at Fort Apache we did have a picture of Buddy Rich, who’s known for the tapes that his band made of him losing his mind on the tour bus. We had a picture of Buddy and the caption was, “You’re not my kind of people, at all.” A little negativity always spices up the conversation.

What type of food do you eat the most?
Sean Slade: Well, in my neighborhood, where I live in Brookline, they just opened up an HMart and so I’ve been starting to get really into Korean food and Korean cooking. My wife and I cook Korean meals and I ended up loving Korean food. Never expected that, but taking advantage of the culture that’s right there, a block away it makes perfect sense.   

What do you see as the most promising development for the future of music?

Sean Slade: I would say it’s almost impossible to predict what the future of music is because it’s always something that you never expect to happen. But there is one rubric that I like, and I call it “The Style and the Anti-Style.” Basically, whatever the prevailing style is, people get bored by it. And sometimes what replaces that prevailing style is the anti-style, because people love something that’s the opposite of what they’re bored with. So, I know that now music is all based in digital audio workstations. It seems like everybody on the planet has one now. But it’s also making people realize that live musicians playing together in a room and being recorded has its own sound and feel. So people are getting into that style of music again.

Let’s talk about the notion of a career. You’ve been able to have one while maintaining your artistic integrity, which is not something everyone in the music industry can say.

Sean Slade: Well, as far as the music industry goes, I was always a purist. You have art and then you have commerce, and those are the two. That’s the yin and yang of the music biz. And I said to myself: Well, I’m going to go for the art, and I’m going to let commerce take care of itself. And I know that other producers are more commerce-conscious, but I really don’t care. That’s not my gig. I’ll make the records and somebody else is going to sell it, and I’ll take my chances with that.

Talk to me about the very first project you worked on as a producer.

Sean Slade: A Boston band called Three Colors. That was the first record. When I say “record,” I mean vinyl, a slab of old vinyl. It was an EP that we made. We recorded it at Syncro Sound, which was owned by The Cars at that point. I cite that particular record because that was the first record that came out as a commercial product with my name on it as a producer. I produced it with Paul Kolderie and that was our debut as a production team. Someone found a copy of it and put it up, and it went viral for a week. People ended up really liking it. The connection is Dana Colley from Morphine. Three Colors was his first band.

When was the last time you had heard that record?

Sean Slade: Oh my God, 30 years? But it was fun, because when you make a record, and when you’re finished with the record—most producers will agree with me on this—all you hear are the things you don’t like. I’ll say, “Oh, my God, that snare sounds awful,” or “I should have done this…” But then, 25 or 30 years later, you listen and you don’t hear any of the technical details. You just hear just the songs. In this case, they were great songs. They were a very talented band. I was lucky.

When producing, what instrument do you feel the most simpatico with?

Sean Slade: The instrument I’m drawn toward when it comes to making records is probably the electric guitar, because it’s a very versatile instrument. You can get all manner of sounds out of it. I just love electric guitars. I love the makes and models of them, the wide variety. I love guitar amplifiers. When I say this, it might seem strange, or I feel somewhat strange because my original instrument was piano, and I spent many teenage years learning how to be a classical pianist. But then when I went to CBGBs and saw people playing loud electric guitars, I was pretty much converted instantly. So that’s when my musical life changed. The first night I went to CBGBs was April 14th, 1976. I saw Jayne County and Tuff Darts!

If you were to make your own album now, who would you want producing it?

Sean Slade: This is a tough one, because I’m a great admirer of any talented producer. If I was going to make a record, my solo album, I would like to work with Chris Thomas. He did his first sessions as George Martin’s assistant, with the Beatles, and he went on to produce Procol Harum and Roxy Music, two of my favorite English art-rock bands. They were my favorite bands when I was a teenager, and anything Chris Thomas does, to me, is great. That would be a dream, but I don’t know if I have good enough songs to work with him.

If you could produce any artist during any period in their career, who would it be?

Sean Slade: If you would ask me who I might produce, kind of in a fantasy record producer way, I’d probably say The Who because the Quadrophenia album was a big moment in my life. I liked The Who before that, and I remember getting excited every time “Pinball Wizard” came on the AM radio. But Quadrophenia, I felt totally in love with that album, and I didn’t listen to anything else, probably for six months straight.

What in your career has been the advantage of having a partner to work with throughout some of your biggest releases?

Sean Slade: The main advantage, I would say, working in the studio, as a team, a production team—or a production engineering team—is when you travel, you get to travel with your friend. It’s not so lonely. And, when you’re working in the studio, too, it’s a lot harder to start a fight with two people as opposed to one.

What are some tactics you have used to get an artist to do something that you know will sound good, but they aren’t quite convinced to do?

Sean Slade: There’s a technique I learned from Sir George Martin, which is getting an artist to do what you want them to do, but making them think that they came up with the idea. Now, I know that sounds horribly surreptitious, but one way you can do that is to say, “Well, let’s try and then you try something.” And if it works out, then the artist thinks that sounds great, then they can take ownership of that idea, and then everything’s fine.

Is there anything that you’ve gotten in the studio just because you were always rolling?

Sean Slade: Recording Hole, for the Live Through This album. Kurt (Cobain) was still alive, and he came by to do some background vocals. It was a fascinating experience because we set up a vocal booth that was made out of big pieces of foam and a Telefunken u47s. Kurt and Courtney (Love) sat in this little makeshift room and experimented with background vocals. So we were recording everything, with the anticipation that maybe one line or two could be used. If you listen really closely to two of the songs—I’m not going to reveal which ones they are—you can hear him in the reverb in the background, singing a couple of harmonies.

You’ve succeeded in a tough industry known for being unforgiving. Why do you now encourage others to pursue it?

Sean Slade: People will say “I’m interested in getting into the music business,” and I say, “Well, then forget it, because you can’t just be interested in it. You’ve got to be driven to do it. It’s not a matter of wanting to. It’s a matter of having to.” And if you have that level of drive, then you can survive the slings and arrows of the music business. But otherwise, do something else. If you want to make money, go to Wall Street. You can make money there. Making money in the music business is not a given.

When did you realize that you gathered enough knowledge and experience to share with the next generation?

Sean Slade: I’ve always had teaching in the back of my mind because I come from a long line of teachers. At the end of the ’90s, I picked up a copy of Rolling Stone that said, “Grunge is dead,” which was fine. I had come to the point where I’d made a lot of records, and I was happy with the ones I had made. And so it was probably in 2010 or so, when I got my first teaching gig, and I ended up loving it. But it took me a while to get my teaching chops together. When Berklee called me in 2012, I was ready to do it and I’ve been happy at Berklee ever since.

Does working with students at Berklee Online, some of whom are already experienced in the industry, still offer a youthful perspective, or does their prior experience change that dynamic?

Sean Slade: Well, as a teacher in the Berklee Online program, specifically in the master’s degree for Music Production, I enjoy my weekly live classes with the students because they challenge me. They have many ideas of their own. And, I want to hear what they’re up to. Also, they have tastes that are different from my musical tastes. I’ll play a song I think is great and they’ll say, “No, that’s not so great.” And then we talk about it. So I never know what’s going to happen, which is a great joy to me. In fact, I had to go and research what was being played on JAM’N 94.5, and I ended up really loving a lot of it.

Describe your teaching philosophy in as few words as possible.

Sean Slade: You caught me on this one because I hadn’t really thought about it this way. I’d say, my teaching philosophy is, “What do you think?” Which is a joke about what producers sometimes do. They don’t really give their opinions. They turn around and say, “What do you think?” A great way to have a seminar and a live class online is to play a piece of music and ask everyone, “Well, what did you think and what did you hear in that particular recording?” That opens up a whole wonderful nest of subjects that can be explored about record-making.

What was your own experience with music education prior to teaching?

Sean Slade: I picked up my first instrument in fourth grade. I played clarinet, which at the time didn’t seem like the brightest decision, but it enabled me later on to play saxophone pretty easily. I ended up playing saxophone in bands and I still love to play saxophone now. But other than playing in the school band, that’s the extent of my music education. Back when I started being a producer/engineer, they didn’t have a producer school. They didn’t have an engineering school. You had to learn by working in studios, by trial and error, and other old-fashioned methods. So, that’s what I did.

What are the biggest changes that you’ve noticed since you first began teaching, especially for Berklee Online?

Sean Slade: When I first started teaching, students were just beginning to develop the idea of using a digital audio workstation as a studio. Then, over the years, when digital audio workstation software became more easily available and cheaper, people ended up getting the idea that they, too, could have a home studio. So 10 or 15 years ago, occasionally students would have a home studio, and now everyone has one.

Do you have an example of a time you got to see one of your students excel in the industry?

Sean Slade: There are actually too many students to name at this point. But it’s very gratifying to me when a former student of mine goes to Nashville and Los Angeles, starts off as a gofer in a studio and then within a year or so, becomes an assistant engineer, and then shortly thereafter becomes an engineer. In the past six months alone, I’ve had former students work with a famous artist and get engineering credits. One in particular recently finished doing a song with Keith Richards. He engineered Keith’s cover of “Waiting for my Man” by Lou Reed.

Do you have any advice for students when they’re working with either their heroes or high-profile artists?

Sean Slade: The advice I would give to students is this: if you happen to find yourself in a studio with a famous musician that you love and respect, once you get over being intimidated by that person, you realize that you’re there to work on music. They’re musicians. You’re a musician. And they’re human beings. You enjoy working with them and getting to know them as you do it. The first moment I started to work with Lou Reed, he got off the elevator into the studio. And of course, I was speechless. “Oh, my God, there’s Lou Reed!” Then the artist that you’re working with comes in, you start talking, and then it is just another day in the studio.